Now it's official what most players suspected anyway: Milton is the qw duel king. The secret behind Milton's superiority is that he doesn't make many mistakes, if any at all. Quasi-flawless and extremely efficient. Locktar has proven to belong among the best all-round qw players, his style being also quite nice to watch. To end this rant, congratulations to Milton! And thanks to all participants and organizers of this Ownage tourney! I observed most of the games with utmost joy. ;) (And again thanks to Stev for uploading the demos!)

Ya gratz goes out to Milton. Nice display of well rounded skills executed quite flawlessly as always :D

Was this one of those games where the winner won and a loser lost?

Is this when I should say "I told you so."? Refering to some old discussion on http://challenge-tv.com/demos/view/37133 . Extremly well executed game from Milton. He didn't seem nervous at all, and his LG hitting almost as good, if not better, than LocKtars this time around. Even the second best stood no chance this time. Nice of Milton to sign up, and hope it is not the last time he signs up for a duel tournament, even though I think it is (unless he shows up at some LAN perhaps around november ;-)).

These Guys just spawn frogbot, nice work! Can someone tell me how to load these demos?

Locktar's performance was mediocre, Milton played flawless as always, hope we Will se him in NeXT duel tournament. Locktar need to shapen up alot to be able to compete with milton. And why on earth Did he pick dm6 ?? I mostly see him play dm4/2 .. Milton rules!!

did Milton quit duelling after this like he had said before? if he did then logically speaking Locktar is the best atm cause he didn't. weird but true if you win a title defend it :-)

Gongratulations to Milton! Nice to see that QW duelling is still more about map control and player prediction then rocket-speed movement and pure shaft-aim. Tactician vs Aimer - And you all know who won... :)

@#8 yah, cus miltons aim is really bad...

yes, his aim is very bad, 50+ direct rocket hints on 3min-end on decent opponent is so easy :D

_hits obviously

Locktar was right to pick DM6. It's almost always better to play your opponent's strongest maps first in tournaments, when players are still twitchy and nervous etc and you have better chances of upsetting them. Didn't work out for him this time, but it was a wise decision.

Makes sense telly, but still DM6 was a horrible pick from Locktar. Sure, it's not Milton's best map or close to best I think but comparing to Locktar hes miles ahead on DM6, thus rendering that map pick absolutely useless. He should've went for DM4 or DM2 obviously that are his strongest maps, or even Aerowalk that he won last time. I'd say those are the maps Milton atleast feared Locktar on cuz I'm sure he knew ZTN and DM6 were to be considered his biggest chances. Still congratulations to Milton for his victory.

No, no, these guys use the frogbot proxie, skill3. It's just a competition between 2 beserk-bots.

If it was best of 3 you would be right, but this was a best of five match and all the maps have to be played. All they are deciding by the picks is the order of play. In that case it is best almost always to play your worst map first. I think everyone knows this instinctively, every match negotiation in NQR and Smackdown etc I have done, teams always have wanted to play their map choice second if they can. Locktar had to win one of DM6/ztn/aero to be champion, and if he had managed that, Milton would have been really under pressure for DM4 and DM2.

OMG ! I just realized CONSTAFA might come to QHLAN!! we're fucked

hahahaha stfu

hahahaha frogbotting

i fly so high in the sky!

I dont know about you guys, but I would rate Milton more of a strategy player then Locktar. Both have very good aim, even though Locktars is better...

LOL! Milton has insane aim. He was able to beat BPS on aerowalk a couple games because of his godly aim even though BPS out-strategized him. It was clear to me that BPS knew how to play Aerowalk much better than Milton but Milton's aim got him a couple victories.

Demos here: http://challenge-tv.com/demos/view/37133

Yes, Milton has better strategy then Locktar. Yes, Milton's rl aim is outstanding. No, Milton's lg is not on par with the best in business, including Locktar.

IMO: strategy = milton. tactics = avenger. shaft = bulat. speed = locktar. rockets = probably milton?

Extremely well played by Milton as usual =) He has a way of forcing his enemy to try to play the entire game with green armor and hardly any health whatsoever, and if you're forced to face 200/200 with 100/100 it doesn't really matter if your aim is better. Congratulations to Milton!! I hope he signs up for Ownage#4 as well.

I think the jury is still out whether or not Locktar's aim is better because I notice Milton leads a lot with shaft tactically to setup RL or to position opponent for RL shot. He also whips it out in prediction a lot resulting in a loss in LG eff. He mostly uses LG not to pulverize like most, he uses it tactically to position them for RL, catch them off guard, blind them and to cause them to play defensive. When he does actually intend to shaft someone it's usually dead on. I'd be amazed if Locktar or anyone beat him in say Povdmm4.

Canadian anon: Maga and Blaze beat him on povdmm4.

aaahhh alright but yeah i notice he is still very effective with shaft he just uses it dif than most.

Neither of them is probably on par with the top pov players but Milton is certainly not bad in it and I wouldn't be surprised if he'd win Locktar in pov. But top povers like maga, bulat, ganon etc are better.

I think i would get spanked BIGTIME in pov against Milton. Actuallt, i dont think im even top 15 on povdmm4. Why? i hate the map, and i choose to play it as little as possible. dm4 is my place to shaft on. Got a new computer for the game vs milton, works really nice. but aim is bit off, some setting from last computer that is not set right.. not that i would have won if i had exactly the same sens, but it sure affected me little. I hope he will attend next BIG 1on1 tournament, if he wont, im not sure if im gonna participate either. GGS!

Nice Locktar! Now that the place where the magic happens improved, hope to see some upgrade on "the magic" as well :D

Oh and btw, this reminds me of Griffin saying that he's not gonna participate at qhlan if Reppie won't be there :))

Milton=combination of ridiculous luck and......well thats it. Nah, Milton just showed us that he is the best. Quite funny to watch a final that looks like a first round game almost. Locktar just didnt have any chance, boring. Milton doesnt make any mistakes, how inhuman is that! Plus he's luck....

#1 Locktar good all-round player? Never happened. He's good in duels, thats it.

There's no doubt that milton is nr1 today, he has proven it in 4on4 2on2 1on1. for me its just 1on1, 2on2 4on4 does not intrest me at all. and if milton decides not to play anymore 1on1, i have nothing to aim for, cus i wont get my revenge. and thats kinda unmotivating:) ofc we have alot of other good duelists, but i want miltons head on a stick:) heheheheh!

#34 Hes not more lucky than we are, he just eliminates all bad factors around him, so he will have the biggest advantage all the time, and by doing so, he will have more luck than bad luck. Thats how quake works, if u do little mistakes, luck will follow.

LocKtar don't forget about Ave... He has kicked you ass last time in finals :E

As i said, there are many good duelists out there, i beat him with 40ms, he beat me with 50ms. im a pingplayer. but lets not go there. its all about the tournaments, unofficial games means shit. for now im second best dueler in the world:)

That's the spirit Locktar! a lot of players could have been nr. 1, they just had bad luck of a Milton dominating their era :) But good luck on your quest to dethrone him... hope he'll keep dueling.

I have to reiterate what I wrote here several years ago already: If there would be an organized LAN tournament where all/most/many high end qw players like Griffin, Dag, Milton, Locktar, Avenger, bps etc. etc. would participate, I'd really pay good money to see some truly amazing display of skill. Sounds nerdy? Well, probably, but I love and know Quake since the very first day downloading Qtest from some obscure university ftp server back in 1996... ;)

#30 LocKtar: Sword, LocKtar.. you want his head on a sword.

Sorry locktar, but Milton won't / wouldn't be your biggest trouble next ownage :-)

i'd really like to see bulat vs milton. i know locktar beat bulat but i feel as if his style might do better than locktar's vs milton.

Yea, +40 LG can harm even Milton :E

In tournament games it's clearly Avenger who is closest to Milton's skill of today's players. (too bad he lagged out of this tourney) #38 Heh Locktar, you lost in the grand final with equal pings. Try more to downplay his victory GG. It was like 6-1 aswell? =)

Yes lets spam the shit out of this demo pack about 51 vs 38 ms thing as well. Or maybe go here: http://challenge-tv.com/demos/view/36785 if you feel like you got something useful to add to that ;-). And to me its pretty clear that locktar is the second best atm, lagged avenger or not. Avenger (and me) lost 2-0 to bulat, where as Locktar beat him 3-2. While that doesn't exactly prove anything, LocKtars second place surely proves it. I agree though, that Avenger in top shape is scary indeed, but he haven't been active enough this season imo.

http://challenge-tv.com/demos/view/37350 :(

Havent really seen Avenger play good at all this season. Hope he will come back stronger for the next one. With an Avenger in good shape, a Bulat with more improvements and a Locktar wanting nothing more but to take revenge, we have a really interesting next season of Ownage to look forward to! However, Milton didnt really play that much duels prior to Ownage. If he keeps on playing duels now Im afraid there is going to be no threat to him. :(

At the end of DM6 their damage done is almost equal, yet Milton miles ahead in score.. Locktar does not and I think will never get that map.. ever.

Dupa, i have seen locktar got beaten by total noobs aswell, random games is for practice, its in the tournaments you do youre best. The link u posted, it clearly was +forward game onesided..

Dupa, i have seen locktar got beaten by total noobs aswell, random games is for practice, its in the tournaments you do youre best. The link u posted, it clearly was +forward game onesided..

u all wrong...

Educate us avenger !

Slanggurka är gott.

Some Swedish fake (what a surprise there) said earlier here on chtv: "Well I dont think Milton have any excuse for NOT signing up. Imo everyone should do what they can to keep qw alive, especially top-players. And this "I dont like duels" © Milton is just bullshit. Clearly he's afraid of loosing and not be considered #1 anymore...wich is just ridiculous." Try to read it once more: I don't like duels. An occasional duel vs. high div2 - low div1 can be entertaining for me because there I don't have to play so slowly and carefully all the time but these long duel tournaments are way too stressful to be enjoyable. For more than once during the tourney I asked myself: "why did I join?". It was the same after Duelmania 3 and Duelmania.fi and this worked as a good reminder for me. Read: I will most probably NOT join any big duel tournaments in the near future. You can do your part to keep the game alive by typing in your real nick and starting to play 4on4. Even if I enjoyed duels in general, I wouldn't probably join another tournament with this ancient map pool. Many players (for example Gamer, the winner of ownage #1) have noticed what a crappy map DM2 is for duels. In addition to that we have DM4 and DM6, both of which are way better than DM2, but still luck can play a huge role in both of them. QW has a lot of well designed, fast and interesting maps suitable for competitive dueling: don't be afraid to lose the advantage you have only because you've played longer and try new maps. Anyway, I knew what I was signing up for and I'm in no way whining about Ownage #3. It's always nice to win and looking back to it is nice even though it was stressful :). I'm glad this time there were no timeouts, lags or any other disturbances. Thanks to locKtar and all the other players in the tournament. GGs.

nice post milton. i say take out dm2 and put in dad2.

Milton, which maps do you suggest as alternatives?

Agreed Milton. There is so many whiners out there who whine on top players and demand them to sign up for every tournament just so that they can spec. How about some of you go out there and get some skills of your own and make qw better that way instead of whining on the few top players we have left in the scene? Ktnx.

Doomed, skull and vdm3 work well in duels in my opinion. Maybe dad2 or some other maps would work perfectly too but I only mentioned those three because I've actually played them. Especially doomed and skull are excellent. Skull was played in a custom map duel tournament in 2003 - 2004 (if I remember correctly) and later in Duelmania.fi, so it has been tested in tournaments also. Also doomed was played in a one-day tournament, Tuesday Kenya or whatever it was called? :)

Even if I agree to some extent on what milton says, I also disagree :-). If luck is such a factor at all in those tourney games, funny how you didn't lose a single dm2, dm4 or dm6 throughout the whole tourney, which by far is the toughest tourney the last couple of years? Tbh, I haven't seen you lose a DM2 duel since the reppie challenge a couple of years ago. Not that you have played that many I guess. And no matter what spawns, I'm also pretty sure theres only 5-6 players even having a remotely chance of beating you on dm4 in a prac game. Probably less in an official. But yeah, I'm sure the scene is ready for both kenya and TB5 tourneys. At least I'd sign up for both.

Yeah someone should organize a kenya tourney! Even I would give it a try :E

i think luck is rarely a factor in any qw-mode. luck comes with skill and the better player or team almost always win.

btw i think it's time to coin the phrase div -1 .. and currently it has 1 player in the pool.. :)

So Kenya next stop? Would you sign then Milton?

Milton signs when you stop faking :(

Oh sorry, didnt mean to fake.

i'd like to see doomed, skull, and dad2 added to the pool. i even wonder how good doomed is as a 2on2 map. i'd like to play it that way but people are so resistant to change. ugggg dad2 1on1 and 2on2 is excellent. it's fast and has a good flow. that map really needs more playtime.

To Rikoll: of course I'm not implying that the outcome of tb3 maps is solely based on luck, just that luck plays a bigger role in them than in many other maps. DM2 is the worst of the three because a single frag can lead to a total disaster: you can either just cs till the end with your one-frag lead or you might get a gazillion spawn frags and go to sauna after. On DM6 it's possible to get a 200/200 start and since it's possible to control the map from a single point (GL), it doesn't leave much chances to the opponent. When two relatively evenly skilled players face each other on DM4, spawns can easily decide the outcome. RA spawn in the beginning vs. ssg or mega spawn and we could see a 10-0 game before the opponent gets his first real chance to fight back. In practice games it's not such a huge problem but in tournament games 10-0 is an awful score to have after a minute or two just because you spawned worse.

I vote skull, t'is a good map :D

I still disagree, since there lots of tactics that neglects the importance of spawns almost completely on TB3. Of course that could lead to what some people think of as dull / cs duels, and is also much harder to learn and execute well than what most people seems to think. Specially DM2 as you mentioned as it favors defensive play a lot, and got areas and teleporters that makes it very hard to attack. And yeah, I mean almost neglects, spawns are still a factor. Still it seems to me that "all" I got to do, is to bring my skill / tactics level to your current level, and luck won't be needed, even versus the best. Seems like a good ground for a competitive environment to me. With that said, yeah I also think aero and ztn are the more balanced maps of TB5. Tbh, I don't care much about DM6 or DM2, but ditching DM4 (which is by far the most popular duel map according to qwstats, and one of the most picked maps in tb5 tourneys, as well as being the map I find most entertaining to play myself both in tourneys and in friendlies) would both seem weird to me and make me a little sad :-(. Can't remember seeing a DM4 tourney match the last two years and half that I felt had an undeserved winner. Feel free to show me examples if you think otherwise though. Ah, and sorry about bringing up the map discussion here. Not the right place and the last I will say about this matter here.

Nooo, bring the comments, this is getting intresting, im on your side rikoll.

As if Rikoll. When someone responds to you, you will respond back. I know you can't resist the temptation :) I think I'm very divided between your opinions. About the luck factor I think it exists mainly on dm2. My game vs locust at qhlan was an example of that. I killed him at water which resulted in me getting at least 5 (!) spawnfrags and it was all game over for locust. I do consider myself a better player than locust on dm2 and would probably have won anyway, but now I more or less won all thanks to luck. This made locust finish 2nd in our group and he got to play a much more difficult opponent in the playoffs, and got knocked out. I can really see why he hates dm2 so much :E Otherwise I don't think dm4 is as unbalanced as Milton says and about dm6 I'm not even gonna comment since I play it so rarely :/

My goal is that we will reach more comments than for the Locktar-Avenger game :( Are you up for it Locktar? ARE YOU????? Be

Milton got a bit right imho. Dm6 - true, when u got full start ra+mh+lg and enemy got only rl its almoust over... Who care that save gl for 10min its lame? :) On dm4 his not right imho... indead u can get good start but if u think u can meke his chance a bit lower and at all u will get your own chance. Dm2... its true spawns can ruin all and ucan lost on start... But remember! U can get only spawn frags when u kill your enemy... Once someone said something smart: In qw u fight for right to get spawn frags... Think about it. Of course luck can help... But when u die u know one for sure... u made mistake.

And what mistake is done when at start of a dm2 duel one of the players spawns at low rl and the other one at ra/mega button? Rougly 99% of the time the player spawning low rl leads 1-0 after the start without any "skill". And we all know what 1-0 can mean in dm2. The same thing can happen at tele: both of the players spawning there and the one closer to the 25h box wins if there's no difference in their skill (their sg accuracy).

#73 when you stop fakenicking.

@Milton: yep, 1/36 games on DM2 will start that way. It can decide the game, but you would still need to protect yourself for 10 minutes if you want to count on that 1 frag lead, which can be hard. Also, if the opponent then spawns at low in the first case, or at water/ng/tele in the second case, its a good chance you will get the frag back.

And when have I ever been fakenicking? If you are referring to #66 that wasn't even me. That was the dude that has been faking all along.

Milton is right, fuck DM* maps in 1on1. Zaka's maps are really brilliant, especially doomed.

#78 Enough already, stop faking.

Stop faking as me, I'm the original one.

WTF is this hate campaign against me :(((

Hate? there's no hate, I love you!

Hagge, stop the fakenicking.

Okay, the way I see it, the only map that can be definitively ruled out is dm2 and most players do not even enjoy dueling on that map. I think the only reason it is even still added to tournament map-pools is because there are a few that "love" to play it and it can be very entertaining to watch top-notch players there. "If" we were to rule out one map i think no contest it would be dm2 and the best contender to replace it would be skull for the reasons Milton mentioned.

Speculations are always speculations. Would be nice to see what ppl thought in a poll. Not sure how I would vote myself. I do love dm2 even for duels. For me it's a fast pace map with lots of action, but unfortunately a lot of ppl tend to play it cs style. These maps have been there for so long that it's really hard to remove one of them. Just look at how long it took for ztndm3 and aerowalk to be accepted. Same thing goes with 4on4. A lot of ppl consider e1m2 to be a far worse map than some of the custom maps, but there are just too many e1m2 fans to remove it. The only solution would probably be to increase the map pool. Btw, is there anyone that actually thinks anything I say makes any sense? Feels like I most of the time just write a lot of humbug :(

I agree with you Hagge that it's difficult to remove maps from the pools. But it surely didn't take a long time for aerowalk and ztndm3 to be accepted. They were just added to the pool in Duelmania 3 and that's it. Maybe we just should do the same and replace dm2 with some other map?

Or maybe modify it? I'm no specialist but I think there was a discussion once about how could dm2 be modified to be more suitable for tournament games. It's kinda weird, while I definitively agree that the map sucks hardly in official 1on1's, I kinda like dm2 demos, as they tend to be somehow tense most of the times.

But I definitively agree with the fact that we need new maps. This would be awesome I think especially to the newer players, I guess for them it would be easier to compete on a map which is new for both rather than competing on a map that somebody has played for the last 10 years. As Milton said, don't be afraid to lose this advantage! and bring in some new maps.

I know how to edit original maps by converting them but I'm not sure if editing original ID maps is exactly legal. Would be interesting to even just switch NG with LG and such a feature could be added to the new KTMod as a vote-able feature.

..actually for the sake of balance testing i think 2 new features should be added; a ng2lg "NailGun To LG" and ng2sng. Not only would these cmds change off ng for either lg or sng but would also change the ammo packs as well. Possibly either of these weapon changes could balance dm2 and make it funner to more ppl to duel on.

hahahah lg to dm2? that would increase the effectiveness of cs/+backing like million times. Also that would ruin the whole map because dm2 is meant to play with rl only.

It might balance the map a little more, would need to be tested. Ruin the map? The majority of players think dm2 is no good for duels so how can you ruin the "whole" map if it's already thought to be ruined. Having both RL and LG might improve peoples chances of coming back on dm2. It would need to be tested.

Feel free to test it, but it sounds like an awful idea imo :E Milton, what if dm2 wasn't removed? Maybe just add more maps as well? If so many ppl don't like dm2, it doesn't have to be played. Instead of playing all maps in the final you could have a different system where ppl pick instead? :[

shaft on dm2 is idiotic

On that note, maybe dm4 needs some adjustments too... I'd say remove both rocket launchers.

well it was just something to test, i was actually leaning more towards sng in place ng. just brainstorming ways to balance dm2 without doing away with it altogether in tourny map pools. calm down already :p

canadian my god u talk crap! you are an idiot trying to sound smart, u obv know nothing about qw :S just stay quiet

LOL! how is my suggestion to play-test switching off a useless weapon for one that's not useless such a bad idea and making you rage? Adr3 ftw!

bad idea is bad ;>

SNG in place of NG..really? NG is total fail :o

#98 I'm from germany too, i'm only visiting family in toronto. which is y i thought it was funny for you to talk trash xD

yea, like SNG instead of NG would change ra+mh tactic or camping cellar at dm2 :D

Hagge, adding more maps would be at least better than the current situation but imo not as good as replacing dm2. I agree with Hagge that modifying current maps is an awful idea. DM2 is a great map just as it is - only not for 1on1. Why should we try to modify a map that clearly doesn't work in 1on1 when we already have great, completely new, duel maps?

Good point Milton and I'm 100% with you on that. I personally would like to dm2 eliminated from the map roster altogether. But not everyone feels that way which is why dm2 is still in touraments to this day. My suggestion was merely in response to ppl being reluctant to let dm2 go, so when Rev suggested changing dm2 (which legally i dont think you can), i figured maybe changing off ng for a more powerful weap like sng may make it a little more balanced. this wouldnt require any changes to the map as it could be done through the ktx mod as a voteable feature. If however the majority of players out there can agree we've all had enough of dm2, I more than anyone would be happy to see it go :>

im curious how you think SNG will make a difference? It's not like you can kill an RL guy with it :) The problem most ppl have with dm2 is that it's too big and too many armors and places to run away and hide. I like dm2 though. It brings something totally different than the other maps. Yes it will be CS and 1-0 victories etc. But imo those games are extremly intense and exciting to both watch and to play. I think a few of the most exciting games has been played on dm2, like dag-griffin games for example. We already have open maps where you cant play CS like aerowalk, so please leave one CS-map! :)

Ok, I agree with Milton, maybe modifying dm2 it's not such a great idea. To Razor: Maybe we should change the way players pick maps, so dm2 could still be played if both players agree, but it should never end up as a decider. I'm too tired to think straight and write down clearly what I want to say, but I hope you get the idea.

razor, forget it! Due to the negative responses on the idea of weapon switching im not even gonna attempt explaining how it "may" or "may not" balance gameplay. Let's just say we ruled weapon switching out by consensus :p

dm2 would be ok if the games were 1 minute long. This way we could have the "dramatic", desperate final attack immediatly, instead of first watching the players sit doing nothing for 9 minutes.

Well, even with 1 minute games overtime can still apply, so I don't think that would change much :-). And unless you do something about spawns, switching NG for SNG is a really bad idea. One spawning SNG, the other water, and thats another set of spawns resulting in a freefrag at the start. Messing with DM2 just for the purpose of balancing it as a duel map, seems like a bad idea. The people enjoying it as it already is, would probably be disapointed, and I doubt people disliking it as it is now for duels would find it any more enjoyable with some small modifications. Imo, it works fine as it is for competitive gaming. But if tourney admins don't want it in their tourneys, or people won't sign up for a tourney with DM2 in it, other maps should be tested.

That point about spawning SNG and water is a good point. However statistically that kind of an opening would be quite rare. There's probably a 1/100 chance. So in my reasoning the positives would have out-weighed the negatives. When I thought the positives I factored in instances like when weaker opponent passes through tele to up top while being chased.. they could spam SNG behind warp spot while stronger opponent follows thru and the knockback might push them off ledge. If they had RL once enemy spawns and is pushed back a bit they could follow up with RL. This could also be done from 200/mega tele passing thru to big room if being chased, pushing opponent down the stairs and then following up with RL. There's a lot of instances where weaker opponent can be chased and SNG could be spammed. Like tunnel to secret - players often rl jump and fast hop to chase weaker opponent. Weaker opponent could anticipate this and turn spam SNG to slow their fast hop down and then follow up with RL and/or run to 200/200. I personally think SNG would probably make dm2 even more of a chess match and quite possibly make dm2 more enjoyable for players but the problem is I don't think it would solve the CS problem. If anything it might make it worse because a SNG tactician could use SNG to their advantage for compounded CS'ing. DM2 is just too expansive for 1on1 and that's the whole problem right there. Like dm3 it's great for team games but offers too much areas for CS that just about nothing can be done to resolve this. The best option is like Milton suggests and consider new maps to take its place.

Oh and SNG would also be good for battles in big room since aiming RL at such a large distance can be quite tricky. SNG could be spammed to corner opponent by forcing them to dodge nails to specific areas and then followed up with a successful RL shot.

dunno why do you continue that sng shit? have you even played dm2 duels? that would only make the map "worse" in every case. only way to make it less cs is like removing some crucial items like 1 mega or removing the door to ra+mh and the nail pack and keep the other lowrl button pressed 100%. etc. but still, why should you start changing classic map after 14 years?

I demand the real Hagge to reveal himself! also, #113 makes a good point.

#113 you might as well tell it to your dog because he probably cares more than I do. If you don't want to hear about it than don't bring it up. I've already scratched it and I was just articulating since ppl seemed confused. But yeah, I'm done with that idea. And I'm pretty sure you get pwnd on dm2 by more than half of the ppl commenting on this page which is why your so angry inside ;(

Hi blAze, i dont agree that people sit around and do nothing for 9 minutes... yes maybe a few games, but most often people try and try to get a fight going but looks for the best positional advantage before really engaging which makes it a hell of a mind game and I find that really really interesting to watch =) not to mention when people start hunting after 0-1 in scores, and the guy with 0 has to hunt, that's also amazing to see =) however yes, i have also seen a couple of really slow and boring dm2s, but ive also seen a bunch of extremely fast dm2s (in official games) that have been just awesome to watch and 10x times more entertaining than any dm4 or aerowalk/ztn has ever been, so i think dm2 is a mix and allows the competitents to play whichever gamestyle they want =) i just wish i could play dm2 :c

i agree with andeh

Word andeh! Just spec me when I play dm2.. let's just say that locktar can go and fuck himself Be

DM2 is just a different style of map. Most players like the fastest twitch-and-time gameplay of aero and dm4. Most people thought the earth was flat, too. DM2 is, to be sure, an extreme form of the positional map, just because it is so big. Frag streaks are possible, (and are not always end of game, see reppie-ul for the lols.) but going in "without brain" (or "with broest") like it works in aero and dm4, will not work in dm2. So these +forward players get frustrated, those who can think very fast on their feet, but have a shorter strategic horizon than someone who can think very long term such as on dm2. All the maps have their pros and cons in this way.

!phil for president!

Words about dm2. When needed, player can stay at YA. If hes being pushed, he jumps through the tele and runs to mh+ra room and stays there. Then he can jump to tele again, run to ya picking up health on his way. And story repeats. I think its rather hard to beat such a strategy.

Let's give it a shot Polaris? You play like that and I will try to beat you.. up for it? :)

To #122:If u were not fake Hagge, then it would be an honour of me for sure.

last i checked milton/locktar are merely the default champions in the absence of griffin, dag, and reppie

This is why I could never get that in to qw. The maps are absolute shit. It's a shame because qw has possibly the best game-play out of any fps. DM2, DM4, even DM6 at times are just poorly designed from a 1v1 perspective. They're old maps made for ffas back in the 1990's! Play some of the quakelive 1v1 maps and you'll see they are much more dynamic. Get it together qw community :).